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S1E5. In this episode we spend time with Maurice “Chipp” Naylon as he shares with us his story of his time overseas as a combat advisor, and the frustrations that led to his writing the book, The New Ministry of Truth. He shares openly and candidly about the effects this experience had on him as well as words of wisdom for veterans that may be grappling with similar ideas. 

More information about Chipp Naylon.

Chipp’s book on Amazon, The New Ministry of Truth

AUTO-TRANSCRIBED – PLEASE FORGIVE ANY ERRORS OR TYPOS

Maurice “Chipp” Naylon  00:00

This isn’t okay. send troops into harm’s way without a frank and open debate at the elected official level of what are the objectives of this military force.

Aaron Spatz  00:17

You were listening to America’s entrepreneur, the podcast designed to educate, entertain, and inspire you in your personal professional journey. I’m your host, Aaron Spatz. And on the podcast, I interview entrepreneurs, industry experts, and other high achievers that detail their personal and professional journeys in business. My goal is to glean their experiences into actionable insights that you can apply to your own journey. If you’re new to the show. We’ve spoken with successful entrepreneurs, Grammy Award winning artists, best selling authors, chief executives, and other fascinating minds with unique experiences. We’ve covered topics such as how to achieve breakthrough and business, growing startups, effect of leadership techniques, and much more. If you strive for continuous self improvement, and enjoy fascinating and insightful conversation, if the subscribe button, you’ll love it here at America’s entrepreneur. Chip, thanks for joining the program. appreciate you making time out of your data to join us. I guess just to get started, would love to hear a little bit about your background, your story and what compelled you to join the US military?

Maurice “Chipp” Naylon  01:27

Well, my story actually goes back, oddly enough to World War Two, which I guess isn’t too uncommon with the amount of vets that so many Americans have in their actual family tree. But my actual name is Maurice Lawrence. And I’m the fourth. Maurice Lawrence Jr. was my grandpa’s older brother, naval aviator who was killed in the Philippines during World War Two. And I think that, as a young kid, hearing that story about his life, and his service, and time in World War Two, and just the legacy that he left in my grandfather, and really the entire family during his brief life, that that idea of service in my head. So from a little kid here, and that story about my Uncle Mo, I knew I wanted to be in the military and in one way, shape or form. The way that unfolded my own path was once the Naval Academy, and ironically enough that went in knowing I wanted to serve, but not sure what I wanted to do, following the academy, but 100% positive, I wasn’t going to be a Marine. And then, oddly enough, one thing led to another. I had some company officers and upperclassmen, I respected tremendously who were Marines and realized that this is really the the best option in terms of leadership at an extremely young age relative to our peers. It’s impossible to be the Marine Option and ended up commissioning the Marine Corps becoming an infantry officer. And that set the stage for the nine years I spent in the Marines. Wow. Well, that’s

Aaron Spatz  03:14

that’s an incredible family legacy that you’ve been fortunate enough to continue. I mean, like, what is your family, your your immediate family? Think of you continuing that?

Maurice “Chipp” Naylon  03:28

I think it’s a balance of pride worry that moms and dads and siblings anywhere feel pride and service but also worry of the harm that that service potentially entails.

Aaron Spatz  03:42

No doubt. I mean, I think that’s probably probably a healthy balance and not an unreasonable not an unreasonable balance by any stretch. Sure. Take us through your selection process into the Marine Corps. And then and then what what that journey looked like.

Maurice “Chipp” Naylon  04:01

Well, Naval Academy is an odd beast and got a lot of ribbing from fellow Marines about not being real Marine officer never went to OCS so my selection process was different in the process for commissioning out of the Naval Academy entails some summer training in the Marines but not OCS. So I ended up graduating commissioning into Marine Corps and then the first actual year and a half on active duty as a grad student, so I really was the last lieutenant, a commissioned second lieutenant who hadn’t been to TBS, but eventually got to CBS. Did my time there and do 100% I wants to be an infantry officer and was fortunate enough to be selected as CBS due to IOC spent my time there and then in March, April timeframe 20 Well reported out to Camp Pendleton to First Battalion, fifth Marines. My first deployment with one five was the 31st new suspend time, over and Okinawa branding in Thailand training in Korea. And some time aboard ship, but a pretty standard peacetime non combat, I say non combat deployment. And the second deployment, actually, the source materials for my book. So it’s one of the unique limits in the Marine Corps, but it’s the the GA deployment program. So I did a full workup with one five as the weapons company XO, and then shortly before deployment to Australia are slated deployment, I was chopped over to be an individual Augmentee for the Georgia deployment program. So it’s game of combat advisors, Training Camp Pendleton, or was Ooh, and depending on which rotation that is. And then we spent three months over in the Republic of Georgia actually embedded with a battalion of soldiers from the Republic of Georgia, prior to then deploying with those guys, who Afghanistan as their embedded advisors. Those were the the two deployments and that was the progression of the latter one, the combat advisor, one. Wow,

Aaron Spatz  06:30

yeah. So talk us through the T advisory. And I guess, what’s fun to notice, I was fortunate to get to spend a couple weeks over there, not nearly the length that you did, but so I can actually picture it in my head. You go in there to Repubblica Georgia, but no doubt, spending so much time with those guys, and then actually going downrange with them. So like, what was that experience like?

Maurice “Chipp” Naylon  06:54

First, there’s certainly a culture shock and Georgian soldiers and soldiers from around the world aren’t Marines, which sounds obvious when you say it out loud. But one of the most challenging things about being combat advisors that you can’t tell these soldiers or advising get tasked them to do something, either combat advisor have no formal authority to task. The Georgians or the Afghans who advise once you got in country. Anything that I wanted to get done or any other advisor for that matter. It’s 100%, dependent upon report and the relationships that build with people that you’re advising. And our team was fortunate in that when we were at the advisor training sell on Camp Pendleton, the operations officer there had just returned from one of the Georgia deployments. So it was a wealth of knowledge and experience, in terms of how to look at the deployment. And the route we chose was using our three months in Georgia to focus significantly more on building rapport with our Georgian counterparts than dying on every mountain of branding standards. We knew we weren’t going to get them to where a marine battalion, pre deployment can be. What was more important to us to ensure that we left Georgia with solid relationships, so that when things got stressful in Afghanistan, we could add a dip into that reservoir report that we we built.

Aaron Spatz  08:34

That’s super wise. Yeah. I mean, that’s very strategic minded.

Maurice “Chipp” Naylon  08:40

Yeah, it was hard, because as Marines, we inherently want to correct deficiencies, optimized training mixed or things are going as well as possible. We actually figured out a pretty good kind of mommy daddy game where, while we were in Georgia, there were marine counterparts whose focus wasn’t the battalion, but the Georgian trainers, what we would call coyotes for lack of better terms. So we were able to kind of work around about system where if we wanted something addressed training wise, with our Georgian soldiers, instead of correcting it directly and then forming an us versus them at trainer student barrier, we would kind of work the mommy daddy thing in behind closed doors, as our marine counterparts. Say Can you please ensure that the Georgian trainers addressed XY and Z training is a convoluted process but it was a way that we could make sure that training wickets were being hit our concerns are being addressed without raising that barrier of rain or training. We’re trying to avoid.

Aaron Spatz  10:03

That’s very wise. And no doubt I’m sure helps maintain that bond that you know that you so desperately wanted to maintain. Right before deployment. And certainly, while you’re in country, so yeah, that’s a pretty wise move. What was the what was the deployment like with those guys, and so to hear about that

Maurice “Chipp” Naylon  10:25

our mission was defending Bagram Airfield. So we were inside and outside the wire security for Bagram up in Poland province, big, big air base up there. And we were in Afghanistan in a fairly unique time, which led to a lot of the stress, frustration and anger that comes out in my book, in that we were there as 2014 World 2015, which was the end of the ISF mission and the beginning of the Resolute Support mission, to 2014 rolls into 2015. And quote, unquote, combat operations are over. I say, quote, unquote, and that nothing changed in our day to day threat reality from December 31 2014, to January 1 2015, we still had to stop rocket attacks on the base, we still had to deal with IDs while out on patrol. But we’d walk into this make believe world where we lie to ourselves, everything’s changed, we’re no longer in combat, which was just that a lie. Because for the guys on the ground, all that false narrative did was I am behind our backs where we still had to conduct our same mission, we just had to do it in a way that made it appear as if US and coalition troops were no longer conducting combat operations. And it led to increasingly more and more stress, anger and frustration about the general situation. And really, what it boiled down to is the question, why are we here? I never once got a clear answer from anyone from civilian to the four star general in charge of combat operations in Afghanistan have, what is the overarching purpose we are seeking to achieve with our military means. And as you’re responsible for sending your your friends, your fellow Marines, out on patrol on ops on a daily basis, without any clear justification for the harm you’re putting them out into? I personally slowly lost my mind. And what I settled on was, our overarching objective is Brandon Marines are left and right formalize. Because when there’s nothing in terms of overarching political objectives that have been defined, we Marines need to create our own purpose or our own overarching objective. And for me, it boiled down to, for him to do is our left and right home life.

Aaron Spatz  13:18

Wow, that’s incredible. And I, I can’t imagine being there during that transition of the mission going from formal combat operations to then the quote, unquote, you know, sustainment and training and all these other things. And so it makes it makes it seem like the page has been turned when in fact, the PAGE PAGE never never was turned. And that’s, that’s incredibly fascinating. What I’m genuinely curious. The feelings that you’re feeling in terms of the purpose behind what you’re doing? Where are those discussions? Where were those internal discussions that you had with your team? Were they discussions with the Georgians all the above? Or was it more like just private thoughts?

Maurice “Chipp” Naylon  14:05

Not always, but I made a conscious decision to not address these things. With the team I would behind closed doors. That my boss ROIC was an outstanding Lieutenant Colonel and a guy who gave me far more free rein in terms of running operations than I ever would have received in a conventional infantry battalion, and the top cover, go along with it. But I made a decision pretty early on as I realized how frustrated I was going to be to turn to journaling. To me, that was my way. Part mentalize my growing rage, frustration with the situation was, as things got particularly bad, it’s been a couple of minutes, got my thoughts down on a journal, throw it into a drawer and that was a way to compartmentalize this emotion, so I could focus on the task at hand planning ops and making sure I did everything in my power to bring our guys home alive. That’s what I chose. As my catharsis, my venting mechanism, for the most part was was just journaling throughout.

Aaron Spatz  15:19

That’s powerful, certainly powerful tool and not and that’s not even limited to the situation you’re in. It’s a powerful tool just in life. And then maybe let me rephrase the question ever so slightly. Did you ever hear? Or did you ever get questions from the Georgians or from other folks in your unit? On the advisory team? You know, that the questions about why why are we here? And I guess it’s the same question. But I mean, we’re those questions that you’re asking internally. I mean, obviously, you’re asking the chain of command there. But did you keep running into that? Also, like, was that being confronted to you? From the outside? You know, like, from, from within your own group of people? And then yeah, okay.

Maurice “Chipp” Naylon  16:07

Yeah, and that’s the another unique thing about an advisor deployment is it’s, it’s not a 750,000, out of the many marine deployment. It’s a handful of guys. So from Corporal Lieutenant Colonel, we had bonds that I think went beyond just the professional bonds that you deal with, in a conventional battalion or battery or, or unit, in general, we’d spent 10 months living together in close proximity, and there was a level of professionalism that it was an all ranked, I’m going to say that the best word is really friendship. So in addition to the professional relationships, a level of friendship and camaraderie, because we’re such a small unit, to that camaraderie, inherently brings a level of brightness that may not be present in a conventional unit. So over late night, cigarettes, cups of coffee, inevitably, those questions came up. And really, all I could do in a leadership position was say, focus on the task at hand, defending the base, bring our guys home alive, if we can make them the lives of the Afghans to deal with just a little bit better. And that’s really the only tact I could take. Sure. I certainly didn’t ever try to tell anyone that there was some grand objective we’re seeking to achieve.

Aaron Spatz  17:49

Makes total sense. I mean, because you’re, you’re fighting this fight kind of internally, but then also realizing your your role there as an advisor, but also as a leader. And so, I mean, sounds like you turn to really the best source of, of getting that out, which is like, Okay, I’ve got to tell somebody, I’ve got to get this out. And this is one way of just providing myself in many ways, it’s a form of therapy, you know, just venting. However you want to word it. And I don’t mean that in any kind of degrading way. It’s just it’s a way to just get your thoughts out and getting get it get a dealt with. And so, you know, over the course of your time there column were you in country anyway, during that deployment? About seven months. Okay. So like, during the entire seven months, then your, your journaling away, and, you know, nixing you know, a few pages turn into a few stacks of pages.

Maurice “Chipp” Naylon  18:46

Yeah, the book was a byproduct. It was not the goal. I got home from Afghanistan, that was my first and only combat deployment, and was prescribed first week home kind of looked at things through rose colored glasses of everything’s fine spray be at home. And then I realized pretty quickly that the anger and frustration that I thought was fully compartmentalised my journal was was still there, pretty pretty significantly beneath the surface. And I could either keep it buried under the surface and let it kind of explode out from time to time or deal with it. And the way I chose to deal with it was to pull that journal back out and just start turning it into a narrative as my way to kind of work through and cope with a lot of the anger I was still feeling. And that narrative ultimately became a manuscript and I just assumed I would save it as a PDF emailed some friends and family. And then I ended up finding somebody who’s willing to publish it. It became a book. Really the the initial goal of the story was just personal catharsis. The secondary goal is hopefully just getting the message out there the craziness of any situation when troops are put in harm’s way without the elected officials giving a clearly defined political objectives to be achieved by that military force. So whether 10 people read it, or 10,000 people read it, just hopefully, somebody gets the message that this isn’t okay. send troops into harm’s way without a frank and open debate at the elected official level of what are the objectives of this military force? And in the level of force we’ve committed to achieve those objectives?

Aaron Spatz  21:04

And that’s a discussion that you feel like, never happened.

Maurice “Chipp” Naylon  21:09

Yeah, I think it’s a discussion that the Congress has been able to fully punt. Post 911. Authorization for US military force allows us to go after bin Laden and those people associated with them, that leads to going after the Taliban modified 2002. Now it’s going after them the same completely unrelated to the 911 attacks. Fast forward 18 years, the legislature Congress has now given the executive branch a blank check for military operations. Because frankly, it’s out of sight out of mind. Most representatives, senators, when they go home, aren’t in town halls, getting pestered about US military actions overseas health care, the economy in it, and things that reasonably do affect people’s day to day lives. But it’s out of sight out of mind, and an all volunteer force, I just don’t think there’s the political will, for congressmen to stand up and say, enough is enough, we have got to revoke this blank check this authorization for the use of military force that has given the executive branch free rein in terms of conducting military operations.

Aaron Spatz  22:29

I can tell it, that’s, I mean, incredibly important to you. And I have to just say, I think it’s incredible that you have the boldness and the tenacity to just write the truth. And I think that’s, I think that’s all anybody can do is write what their experiences were, and leave it there for people to consider. And I think it’s, it’s a great way and it’s a great, it’s a it’s a great outlet, in terms of putting this book together, I think it’s a great opportunity for people to see a different perspective for people to not just read and consume the war story craze. And and I mean, no doubt there’s gonna be experiences there in the book that that talk about those experiences, but but but not for the sake of the experience, whereas yours is focused on a little bit higher level like, Okay, what’s, what’s the point?

Maurice “Chipp” Naylon  23:26

Right. Yeah, you’re spot on. And I appreciate the support.

Aaron Spatz  23:33

Certainly, and I guess that’s my next question was, what what is the reception been? Like? Have you met any resistance to this? Because it’s not exactly going to be, you know, the, you know, the dress, right dress, you know, really positive, upbeat version of a story that people are hoping that, that everything always is so like, I’m sure your perceptions probably been a little bit mixed.

Maurice “Chipp” Naylon  23:58

From the veteran community. It’s, I’m not even going to say surprisingly, just because anecdotally talking with people. I sense that this was the case. A lot of positive feedback in terms of hmm, thanks for writing this. This was a lot of the anger I felt that I didn’t know how to put into words, but you have given a voice to that anger. So it’s really from the majority of the vets that I’ve talked to Bill friends and just people I don’t even know, but reach out to me on social media or via email that I’ve gotten a lot of, hey, thanks for doing this. It’s something that I felt needed to be done, which has been an extremely rewarding experience getting that feedback have a chip, I had that anger too. I have that anger as well. Thank you for putting it into words and giving a voice to that veteran anger that, that I think a lot of people share.

Aaron Spatz  25:08

So that’s kind of all of a sudden you find yourself not only being validated in what you’re and what your observations are, but then also, in many ways acting as a representative for a larger group of people that have experienced the same things that you have. I hope so. will no doubt I’m I’m certain that that, that this book in the in the story that you that you tell, I truly believe it’s going to resonate with, with many people. There’s a lot of it, just me knowing the surface level. Part of your story. I mean, I, I tend to agree with, with what you’re saying, your book, I think is going to be yet another vehicle for ways of people to say, you know, what I can relate to the story. A lot of it speaks to me, and this is something that I really hope that our politicians and policymakers really pay attention to. So yeah,

Maurice “Chipp” Naylon  26:11

thank you owe. Well, thank you. I’m cautiously optimistic to about our path ahead. As more and more post 911 vets on both sides of the aisle are being elected to Congress, local positions. And it’s just I hope that with the experience these vets have, they bring that to the table. And they bring some of the anger and frustration and sanity check, oh, wait a second, we should talk about what these objectives are before we send us men and women into harm’s way. So I am cautiously optimistic about our track with more and more that’s being elected into Congress

Aaron Spatz  27:00

certainly helps, it certainly helps tell the story and having people that look and, and have gone through similar experiences to what we’ve been through as a veterans community and knowing that you’ve got a representative that at least you’re hoping, right, you’re you’re you’re hoping that they’re that their viewpoint lines up with with the greater whole of the of the veterans community. So shifting gears ever so slightly, so walk us through, you know, obviously coming home from a deployment like that, and then your your transition, you know, out of the Marine Corps, and then what are you up to today?

Maurice “Chipp” Naylon  27:46

After this was, the Georgia deployment was my last one with one five. So from there, I transition into a B billet teaching amphibious ops out of the little creek on the east coast. So that was awesome experience and that I love teaching. And it was really cool opportunity to teach and travel and work with fellow marines, sailors and a lot of South American Marine Corps. So that was a pretty cool experience. After that, made the decision I was at nine years to get out. I knew if I went back to company commands, that 12 probably going to stay until 20. And it just for me personally, it was ready to transition out. So I did that. I stayed in Virginia. So I moved from Norfolk up to Richmond, where I currently live my wife and I’m actually working as an accountant at a real estate company right now. So completely unrelated to anything I’d studied anything I did, certainly in the infantry. But it was something where I was able to take some classes online, learn a hard skill, and apply for a job with that hard skill, so enjoying what I do, but I think similar to a lot of veterans, there’s that sense of lost purpose. And something that’s helped me a ton personally, is volunteering. I’ve gotten involved with the local chapter, the Travis Manion Foundation, which is an absolutely outstanding veteran run charity that does a ton to empower both veterans and work and mentor youth and local communities. And that’s been a phenomenal opportunity to continue with a sense of purpose because I certainly fell victim to the My life’s going fine. At the surface level. Everything’s good, enjoying things but that lack of purpose can rock have a greater sense of mission and, and volunteering with, with Travis man is helped a ton in that respect.

Aaron Spatz  30:08

That’s incredible. And that’s something that I, I know, a lot of veterans battle, you articulated that so well, that’s something that I had gone through. And I tell it in the classic artillery way of speaking, but you know, your flash to bang, and you flash being today that you drive out the front gate for the last time. And then the bang being when you actually realize and start to grapple and, and have a hard time with, okay, what is my purpose? Like, what the heck am I doing, because your identity gets wrapped up completely in what you’re doing as Marine. Or if you’re, if you’re not a Marine, and you’re serving in a different branch of service. It, it’s the same thing like you your mission, your your whole time in was dedicated to something greater than yourself. And you get out and you realize it’s not all about that anymore. It doesn’t have the same purpose and the same drive. And so I’ve seen a lot of guys struggle, and kind of flounder a bit in that it is a process. It takes time. And so that’s a really interesting perspective and a really cool way of of re centering yourself. So what are what are some things that you’ve been able to do that the Travis Manion foundation

Maurice “Chipp” Naylon  31:31

they have a few different kind of pillars, I guess. One is community service projects. So a couple ones I’ve done recently in Richmond, we did a beautification at a local, elementary school. So cleaning up planting, painting. And everything’s done in honor of a fallen service member. And it’s a way that ties veterans to both helping the community and bringing a full and service members family into that tight knit community as well. Another outstanding one we just did recently was Richmond has a organization that, that pulls homeless that’s off streets and helps put them into jobs and basically stabilize them, it gives them the resources, they need to get off the streets into a better life situation. And we went over to that actual charity, and same thing spend an entire day painting, cleaning, working with the vets, also in honor of the fallen service members. So that’s that community service aspect is one time, veterans volunteers, the community and the family’s fallen service members together. And then the other path is is youth mentor, where get into high schools, middle schools, and spend time working directly with students on what they call their their character does matter campaign, where you are instilling character leadership values, and youth, for lack of better terms, helping to pay it forward and build that level of, of character and leadership and the next generation coming along. So those two pillars have been really great opportunities.

Aaron Spatz  33:34

So given your your volunteer experience through through the foundation, I think I probably know what some of your advice would be. But I’ll still ask the question anyway. But for guys that you have seen or for those that are listening to this, and maybe they’re they’ve been out of the military for a few years, and I don’t care what your rank is, you could have been a guy who got out after your first term in the airforce or you could have been a career soldier. Doesn’t really matter. And but maybe there’s a little bit of floundering a little bit of frustration with respect to that purpose. And I get it you may even be on that journey to still. But what what advice would you give to people who are trying to connect to their purpose once once they’ve separated,

Maurice “Chipp” Naylon  34:21

get involved with something and that’s it, get involved with something bigger than yourself and, and the awesome thing about it is not signing the contract. It’s not like you’re enlisting for a four year contract. If you go and get involved with a local charitable organization, VFW, American Legion, whatever it is, to something greater than yourself, you go your eyes. A this isn’t really dived on personality. It’s not for me, that’s fine, try something new, but you’ve given it a shot and just keep working towards finding something that’s bigger than yourself that continued sense of service. It It just helps pull you from that sense of kind of nothingness and lack of direction, whatever that thing is that gives you that passion. Find it. And whether it’s a local charity, veteran organization, I mean, bonds exist. But just get involved with something.

Aaron Spatz  35:23

You know, that’s so practical, and so easy to do, because there are a million organizations out there, and kind of like what you said, there’s a scratch that itch that you might have. And so find the one that works for you. And, and I love it, because you’re not you’re not signing a contract. So go, you know, shoot, go try a bunch of them. See, see which one really speaks to you. And I think it’s a, it’s a quick, easy way to make an immediate impact on yourself, and really, what what it is that you’re trying to do? I agree. So I’ll give you the last word. And I would just leave it to you in terms of, you know, any, any last thoughts, any final comments, anything that you would love the audience to know, or, or understand, that maybe they haven’t already heard?

Maurice “Chipp” Naylon  36:16

All I’d say is that we all have anger, frustration, feelings we’re coping with, get them out. So buried inside, whatever your way of sharing, just make sure your voice is heard. Whether that’s just talking to friends and family writing, journaling, blogging, just don’t bury those emotions, bring them out and address them with somebody and tackle. But make sure your voices heard.

Aaron Spatz  36:51

Because the opposite. So in your assessment, what is the side effect? If you don’t do that?

Maurice “Chipp” Naylon  37:00

I’m going to kind of preface this with the huge disclaimer that I’m certainly not a brain psychologist, therapist or anything along those lines, yeah, nothing more than than my armchair opinion. If we bury those negative emotions, they’re going to come out one way or another. And I would rather control the environment in which they come out, than have them come out in an area where it’s something that pushes me into the black in a situation where I don’t want to be pushed into the black. So I guess I liken it somewhat to a volcano where that anger is always beneath the surface. So it’s better to let off steam controlled way than to wait for that eruption. When you’re not ready for it.

Aaron Spatz  37:57

It’s certainly wise, and I don’t care what stage of life you’re in. That’s, that’s great advice. No matter what, no matter what situation you find yourself in. If don’t mind me asking, and I’ll and I’ll pivot here and in this, this may end up going nowhere, and that’s okay. But do you have any examples of times that maybe, you know, during this process, I guess is what I’m getting at during the time of your writing, writing the book and going through your own process when you when you’ve come home? And you’re kind of dealing with these thoughts? You know, has there been any moments where it did end up coming out in a negative way?

Maurice “Chipp” Naylon  38:43

Yeah, yeah, but um, that’s really what led to me pulling this journal back out of the drawer I am in a grocery store with my then fiance now wife and pretty viscerally snapped at her about an absolutely inconsequential, innocent question. She asked me and I immediately wanted the black and then immediately backed off realizing oh my god, where did that anger just come from? And that really forced him introspection of okay, I guess these emotions that I thought I’d buried in a journal really aren’t fully buried. So that was the first of several and I have a feeling it’s something that will be with me for life but I think now I’m gonna come to terms with with these emotions a little better and dealing with them then than I initially had but that one right there just a couple weeks after getting home was was the first and and most pivotal in terms of okay, I have to deal with this.

Aaron Spatz  39:57

Yeah, really, really turned into a wake up call for yourself because kind of like me. And where did that come from? That’s a side of me. That’s not normal. That’s not it? Doesn’t the chip, everybody knows that’s not the chip that I know. You know, this, this, this is a normal. Right? And then good news there, I guess is a fiancee turned wife.

Maurice “Chipp” Naylon  40:20

Right? Yeah. Yep. And all good. Yeah.

Aaron Spatz  40:23

That’s awesome. Well, no doubt she’s been a she’s been a great support and a great, great part of your story as well.

Maurice “Chipp” Naylon  40:30

100%

Aaron Spatz  40:33

Well, I can’t thank you enough chip for taking some time out of your day to spend some time with me and some time with the listening audience. I’m excited to, to see you continue. And I think there’s, there’s plenty more discussions to be had. With respect to not just at the policy level, but also how we cope with things as we come off of, you know, some pretty, pretty stressful deployments and things that we may face. So I can’t thank you enough for just your raw honesty, and, and just for spending some time with me.

Maurice “Chipp” Naylon  41:11

And thank you both for having me on. Let me run my mouth a little bit and really, for what you’re doing with this podcast as well and, and helping a lot of veterans kind of find their voice and share their their stories. So thank you for that as well.

Aaron Spatz  41:29

Thanks for listening to America’s entrepreneur. If you enjoyed the show, please leave a review or comment on your preferred social media platform. share it out with friends, family, coworkers, others in your network. And of course, you can write me directly at Erin at Bold media.us That’s a Ron at Bold media.us

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